March 13, 2025
Lazar Ristic Shares His Journey from Graphic Design to Mobile Lead
In this episode of "Building Stacklist," hosts Kyle and Martina are joined by Lazar Ristic as they kick off the new year with reflections, predictions, and plans for the future of Stacklist.
Dive into the journey of building a startup, where speed, innovation, and user experience are at the forefront. Lazar shares his transition from graphic design to leading mobile development with a focus on optimizing development speed using Flutter.
The team discusses goals for 2025, including growing their user base to 10,000 Members and improving ease of use and confidence in their product.
Listen in as they share insights on team dynamics, agile development, and maintaining a startup mindset while aiming for growth and excellence.
Whether you're a startup enthusiast or building your own business, this episode offers valuable lessons on the entrepreneurial path.
Chapters
00:00 - Team Introductions and 2025 Kickoff
05:42 - Lazar's Background in Design and Development
15:59 - First Impressions of Stacklist and Team Dynamic
25:01 - Speed of Startups vs Big Companies
35:09 - Maintaining Morale Through Challenges
42:12 - Vision and Goals for 2025
50:54 - Announcing Lazar's Promotion
Transcript
WEBVTT
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Obviously, Martina is on the web and she's too fast, so you need to catch up with Martina.
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To become one of those things where we're like, oh, I got to mute that sign-up channel.
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What do you sound like to hit that reach 10K this year?
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Watch out because we're coming.
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We're coming for you.
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Happy 2025.
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Martina and Lazar are going to be joining me shortly and we're going to be kicking off this new year with a new episode.
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Cheers, hello, sir, hello how are you Great?
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How are you doing?
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Happy New Year.
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Happy New Year.
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Happy New Year, I'm still waking up.
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Yeah, happy New Year, happy.
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New Year.
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I'm still waking up.
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Yeah, is it 5 am at your place, or?
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You're six hours behind.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's crazy January 2nd and you're up at 5 am.
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Let's do it.
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Let's do it.
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Let's go Hello, hey, hello, hello, welcome to 2025.
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Indeed.
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Well, technically, both of you should invite me with just a little, maybe, reflection back and then also what the heck is going to happen this year predictions.
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While I have sips of coffee every now and then, I want to, like Lazar, we haven't had time to to to sort of meet you.
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Uh, or the, or the audience hasn't had a chance to kind of meet you yet.
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So, uh, I thought what I'd like to do is just get started by maybe giving a little bit of your background and then, um, and then follow it up with, like I don't know kind of what you thought when you first joined us and when you first, like, heard about Stacklist and came in and started kind of looking at everything, what your initial impressions were.
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Well, I'll start way back when I started as a graphic designer, I guess, which was like my first when I was still studying, my first gigs and stuff.
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I was just trying to make some money on the side by just doing anything.
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So I was into MBA and then I joined some editorial staff which needed a graphic designer.
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So I started doing graphic design and after that, yeah, I just went into coding with web developing and into mobile apps.
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So I've been doing this for like five, six years, doing mobile development for like four years.
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So, yeah, pretty much I knew that I wanted to do mobile apps.
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So once I learned about Flutter, I was like this is the new cool thing.
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And then I was like, yeah, I need to jump on this and learn it.
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It was fun because you could develop Android and iOS at the same time, which was fun.
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So, yeah, that's, I guess, my short background.
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What did you design in originally and what kind of stuff did you work on when you were?
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designing.
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What did you design in originally and what kind of stuff did you work on when you were designing?
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I was doing like promo for NBA games because we had like a page and, as I said, editorial stuff which was called NBA Serbia.
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So we were mostly following guys from Serbia that were playing in the NBA.
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So all like social media promo stuff, like promoting games when are they playing their stats and stuff like that.
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So that's mostly what I was doing in some video editing as well.
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So yeah, Lina Kovacevic, did your tech career started off when you figure out you won't be next to Nikola Jokic, or?
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basically yeah.
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Yeah, I mean I was doing a lot of stats back then for Nikola.
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He was not as famous as he is now, but yeah, we basically started off at the same time, I would say.
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But he is now obviously much more famous.
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But yeah, thanks to Nikola, I started off my career.
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I had what to do in the editorial stuff, so yeah, what made you make the pivot from designing, designing to to coding?
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well, I obviously uh knew that I wanted to do coding from the start, because I was at my computer basically, uh, 24 7.
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So I had an idea that I would like uh do coding, be a developer at some point, uh, but I had, as martina mentioned, some dreams that I would be a basketball player.
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Uh, so, but I had, as Martina mentioned, some dreams that I would be a basketball player.
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So once that died, then I was like, okay, now I need to go to university and stuff, so what will I do?
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I'm good at maths, okay, let's then just do coding.
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And I'm at the computer all the time, so let's do coding.
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So it was kind of natural.
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And, uh, I never looked back.
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It's amazing.
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So yeah, nice, um.
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Well, and both of you are, uh, are well seasoned basketball players.
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I am not, so if we were to play horse, maybe we could play.
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Maybe if we were to play uh, then I know, uh, I'm gonna get schooled, but uh, at some point I still wanna uh.
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Like you know, the three of us have to have to get on a court just because I've heard of all of the um trash all of the accolades from both.
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Oh yeah, exactly, and trash talk yeah yeah, I mean trash talk is the best, but you'll see on the court it was better.
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Yeah, when did you like what did you think about Stackless when you first joined?
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Like what were your first sort of like really initial thoughts when you kind of heard about it and then when you kind of jumped in and started looking at the initial code base and things like that and started looking at at the initial code base and things like that, what were your kind of initial thoughts of the, the overall idea and and um and kind of the initial implementation when you jumped in oh well.
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Well, the first uh time I heard about stacklist, it was like or how did nobody came up with it before?
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Because it was so cool?
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I was like, yeah, this seems pretty uh useful and intuitive and to use and like, how doesn't it exist already?
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So, uh, yeah, I was amazed by the idea.
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I really liked it and that's like the biggest part why I decided to join and to give it a try, because I felt like I would also use it and believe in the project.
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When you work on something that you also believe in, it's much easier to work.
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So, yeah, I really liked it.
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And when I jumped into the initial code base and the project itself and the team and everything, I would say that the team is like Stacklist is the best team I've worked on because everybody is so proactive, everybody, the communication is amazing, everybody is responsive, so everything goes fast, which is awesome, especially when you're a startup, I guess, and you need to get things done fast.
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So that's that's I mean, useful.
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So, yeah, uh, everything was positive, which is like crazy, maybe, to say when you join first, first time but no negatives as of now and I've been here for like what?
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Five months.
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This is so no negative feedback.
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So that's amazing Nice.
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Cool.
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What about kind of I can't remember when, what was the initial?
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We had had some initial code base, originally, right when you joined, and I think we've had like one or two people's kind of.
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Yeah, we had had, we had had one or two people sort of, you know, start to to build things out, um.
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But then, um, you've really taken it and kind of made it your own and and kind of refactored everything.
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Um, what's the?
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What was the process like when you sort of first jumped in and looked at everything and saw where it was?
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Yeah, well, when I first jumped in, the first impression was that the iOS app was way ahead of Android app and the project was using Flutter, which was amazing.
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And I would say the purpose of Flutter is exactly that cross platform developing, so developing at the same time at the same speed.
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So the first thing was to just get Android up to speed with the iOS and then catch up to web, because obviously Martina is on the web and she's too fast, so you need to catch up with Martina.
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So that were the initial thoughts just to get both mobile platforms at the same level and then catch up to web.
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But, yeah, I would say refactoring was slow, as refactoring is, but sometimes I mean you need to go slow to go fast, which is what we're doing now.
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So that's awesome.
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And you previously worked in in a bigger company, right yeah yeah, and what would you say?
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Is the the most like?
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How would I put it?
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What's the biggest difference between the two environments like the big cultural wise and the big company, and the procedure that may be there that we don't have, versus here?
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Well, I would say speed.
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First of all because in bigger companies you need to get approval from approval, from an approval, and then, once you get five approvals, then you can push something In startups.
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It's much faster, so you just you have it and then tell everyone what shipped.
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Yeah, just like see what what happens on prod, so but yeah, it's much faster in startup, I would say.
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And, as I mentioned, communication, obviously communication is a big difference.
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Also, I think here are things much more dynamic is a big difference.
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Also, I think here are things much more dynamic and sometimes that they could be stressful, but I think that's also good because it makes you focus more.
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But, yeah, I would say, communication and speed is like the main difference between, like, big companies and startups.
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How do you like our YOLO Friday pushes?
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You know, that's stressful, that's stressful.
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I mean, you're the only one.
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If something goes terrible, you need to be present to fix it.
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It can ruin your weekend.
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You don't have the weekend I mean.
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So if we wanted to like introduce, martina discussed introducing YOLO weekends as well.
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We've pushed the brakes for now.
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so that's it just very late post every day on the weekend post dinner yeah, exactly push and then, like, go to bed and sleep soundly.
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I love it.
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Um, that's great.
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What about like what, what?
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What have you felt like what?
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What are some of the things that we've done that you feel like are that we should keep?
00:11:34.269 --> 00:11:47.302
I mean, even even as we grow into a team of five or ten or twenty, you know above, like what do you think are the, the like three things that we should sort of keep the same as much as possible?
00:11:48.303 --> 00:11:49.326
That's a hard question.
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Honestly.
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I would say, if we can, we should keep the speed, because I think that's like our thing.
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Like as for now it's like at least pushed one time a week so the users have new experiences every week is fun, so I would say that.
00:12:07.336 --> 00:12:15.642
But obviously it's hard when you add more people so you then maybe have code reviews and stuff which takes much more time.
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Also you have like more QA.
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So we'll see.
00:12:21.471 --> 00:12:25.754
But I would say speed is, if we can keep it, then that would be awesome.
00:12:25.754 --> 00:12:34.004
Definitely always talking about the speed, sorry, but I'm just so amazed by it because it's really amazing the speed we're doing it.
00:12:34.745 --> 00:12:59.038
so, for the people watching, the people listening, um, if you don't know, um, I think we actually have a terminator emoji, um, in slack that is specific to use mid journey and combine what is sort like Lazar's face or sort of like Lazar's face plus a Terminator, because Lazar just is a machine.
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And so we've even had we had a visual design team member that said Lazar was too fast, um and uh, and usually the idea is like we're like hey, we have some ideas about what should be done and we put those in Slack, and then, if you give it like an hour or so, you see this build come through like wait, hold on.
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We just talked about this stuff and the build is already ready.
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So, um, that's, this is, this is lazar's mo is.
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Um, if you think you need to estimate something out, um, you know lazar is probably gonna have it ready in the short term, which is amazing.
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So, martini, you were gonna, you were going to say something.
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You stole my thought basically Sorry.
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No, no.
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But I was going to ask.
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We downsized a bit this year and I was just going to ask how did you keep your morale high and keep the pace, kept the pace, and how was the process for you in that time?
00:14:06.437 --> 00:14:06.739
uh.
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Well, as I said, that sort of ties it to the beginning when I came to the project and the speed thing as well.
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I mean, my speed thing is when you just believe in the project and you enjoy working on it.
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Uh, then you can just uh while you enjoy working.
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It's just going fast, which is awesome.
00:14:25.451 --> 00:14:37.183
And yeah, the morale never went down, honestly, even if when we downscaled because still I was like, yeah, this is awesome, the app is awesome, I believe that it will succeed.
00:14:37.183 --> 00:14:45.567
So, yeah, I mean it never really impacted me that we downsized the team, so yeah, cool?
00:14:45.749 --> 00:14:49.885
and in this last five, six month, what was the most stressful event for you?
00:14:51.089 --> 00:14:54.658
the most stressful, um, not sure.
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I think product product hunt was the one, because it went live and it's like we tested everything.
00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:12.150
But you know how it is with uh, when things need to be perfect, so I was a bit scared if somebody finds something that will like fail and stuff.
00:15:12.150 --> 00:15:14.302
So that was a bit stressful for me.
00:15:14.322 --> 00:15:19.513
So yeah, and maybe maybe share with, uh, with the listening and viewing team.
00:15:19.513 --> 00:15:23.767
Um, what was the full ticket count of the problems that were found?
00:15:25.509 --> 00:15:35.413
I think, zero if I'm not yeah for me, most stressful thing was when you broke your hand.
00:15:35.413 --> 00:15:42.589
That was my most, most stressful, uh, yeah I even forgot about it honestly.
00:15:42.769 --> 00:15:47.475
honestly, I mean, yeah, it didn't impact me.
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I was just working with one full hand and the other one was helping for the shortcuts and stuff on the keyboard.
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So yeah, but it wasn't stressful.
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I don't know if we recorded any of this but for everyone watching and listening, there was this one moment where we had this one week Lazar had injured his hand playing basketball, because he's just known for being so highly aggressive on the court and just turns into a beast.
00:16:18.630 --> 00:16:22.240
But apparently was like what did you do, lazar?
00:16:23.142 --> 00:17:02.559
You went for a ball and just caught it with the tip of your finger right of your yeah, yeah, yeah all, and the finger went the other way totally so yeah yeah, the finger had, uh, had other ideas and so, um, but it was this one week where we were building and I think it was when the three of us, plus Juan who was working on the redesign, were just like kind of chewing through a whole new redesign of the profile in the app and like how the cards look in the app and all these sort of things.
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:04.606
I think we did two builds that week.
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All the cards look in the app and all these sort of things.
00:17:07.355 --> 00:17:20.785
I think we did two builds that week and as we were, as we were like going through it, we were on a call and, of course, lazar's on the call with his hand in a cast, like taking all the feedback, going all right, sounds good, yep, all right, yep, we'll push that too.
00:17:20.785 --> 00:17:21.968
And it like hit me.
00:17:21.968 --> 00:17:42.522
It was like wait a wait, a second, how like I had all these mental sort of images of lazard, just sort of like are you dictating into the computer or are like you know, and but just like, just like crunching through like updates with one hand, uh, or like using your elbows, or like I could.
00:17:42.522 --> 00:17:45.400
I couldn't figure out like how we were getting through all this.
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:56.345
So, uh, it was, it was magic, honestly yeah, I thought about looking into some AI stuff that could help me, but I didn't uh.
00:17:56.345 --> 00:17:59.269
So, yeah, it was just uh more.
00:17:59.269 --> 00:18:07.164
So you think it's magic, but it's just like I don't have what to do because my hand is in a cast, so then I'll just work on the app.
00:18:07.164 --> 00:18:11.568
So yeah.
00:18:11.568 --> 00:18:12.270
I remember.
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I remember I was driving in a car with my whole family and I got the text, basically image, from Lazar, like hey, look at this.
00:18:20.684 --> 00:18:23.607
And I'm like, what is that?
00:18:23.607 --> 00:18:28.814
Is that you Please tell me?
00:18:28.814 --> 00:18:29.375
It's not you.
00:18:29.375 --> 00:18:32.788
And then he sent me like I'm like, oh, my god.
00:18:32.788 --> 00:18:36.962
And I remember having, like what Kyle said, like bunch of stuff in the pipeline.
00:18:36.962 --> 00:18:40.151
And I'm like, oh, no, no.
00:18:40.151 --> 00:18:54.227
And then, and then the next week we were what he mentioned, like we had like two, two or three builds and I'm like, okay, it's not that bad, he can keep that broken hand forever, it's fine, I don't mind.
00:18:54.227 --> 00:18:56.951
Yeah, crazy.
00:18:58.660 --> 00:19:13.009
Well, we're glad you got your hand back and I'm interested to see, like, as we look forward and maybe let's go around Robin, maybe Martina, you can go first.
00:19:13.009 --> 00:19:22.556
But, like, as we kick this new year off, today's January 2nd, we just got our first round of funding.
00:19:22.556 --> 00:19:24.938
So 2024 was amazing.
00:19:24.938 --> 00:19:42.304
Basically kicking off for a timeline perspective, it was April was really when the when Stackless was starting to be built in earnest, when there was an initial code base of something that started to work and, I think, was it.
00:19:42.384 --> 00:19:45.771
May, martina, when you joined, or was it?
00:19:46.292 --> 00:19:46.413
May.
00:19:47.701 --> 00:19:48.041
May.
00:19:48.041 --> 00:19:49.285
Yeah, yeah, okay.
00:19:49.285 --> 00:19:51.390
So it was initially from a timeline perspective.
00:19:51.390 --> 00:19:59.743
It was April was when we were incorporated and then sort of really started to have external people to myself, sort of start to work on it.
00:19:59.743 --> 00:20:05.339
Martina joined in May, and then that was, what would that have been?
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:09.532
Was it July then when you joined Lazar?
00:20:10.576 --> 00:20:12.661
I think it was August August.
00:20:12.760 --> 00:20:27.061
Okay, and so then we publicly launched in September really opening the doors to whoever wanted to come in and sort of sign up for Stacklist.
00:20:27.061 --> 00:20:36.701
And then we spent sort of October, november really sort of refining things, pushing out a lot of the mobile updates.
00:20:36.701 --> 00:20:48.709
Right now I did something yesterday was we still I'm still trying to get my hands around like exactly how many people we have that we would call the user number.
00:20:48.709 --> 00:21:19.888
But I went into intercom and I I fleshed it down to only really active consider within a 90 day period that have sort of logged in and used it and and tried it, and so it's about 200 and some of the people but we're trying to really get our goal for 2025 is 10,000 people and and so breaking that down, you know we really need to get.
00:21:19.888 --> 00:21:50.467
You know that's probably between 800 and 1,000 users a month in the app, like specifically focused on or that um, that you're that you think we need to, to sort of zone in on um as we kick off the year?
00:21:50.487 --> 00:21:53.653
that's a tough question, but I would say a lot, of, a lot of things.
00:21:53.653 --> 00:22:18.741
Like I know we are a small team and we have only a couple of brains and a couple of hands, but like I think we have to focus on multiple stuff, like building still for for you, for our users, um, enhancing the app, integrating ai agents, um, you know, search being way more comprehensive and around the globe, not just my search, but to search all the stackless members.
00:22:18.741 --> 00:22:19.423
I know.
00:22:19.423 --> 00:22:21.892
Like making the experience so so seamless.
00:22:21.892 --> 00:22:25.926
Like share action to just be a one button click and that's it we got you.
00:22:25.926 --> 00:22:27.968
Come back later, do your thing.
00:22:29.662 --> 00:22:42.468
I think there are a couple of ways that we can improve users' journey in our app so that we can gain more what you send, like to hit that reach 10k this year.
00:22:42.468 --> 00:22:47.840
I don't know what's the.
00:22:47.840 --> 00:23:05.999
I've been talking a lot with my family members as well who use our app and to see what they think, because I I guess they would be honest with me, uh, so I'm trying to gather the feedback of what's maybe the biggest hurdle in their journey, um, so that we can solve that and maybe be more likable.
00:23:05.999 --> 00:23:14.904
I don't know how to say it, but I would say we are on a memorable to, I think is probably memorable things, sticky and memorable.
00:23:15.005 --> 00:23:30.843
Yeah, those things that basically when you browse anything that you just, oh, I need to save this and that you have in your brain okay, I will save it in stack list and that shift needs to happen, um, this year, and it will for sure yeah, that it's only, it's one quick action away.
00:23:31.585 --> 00:23:49.511
If it's steps, then it's not, but if it's just one quick action, yeah, I was thinking like the other day, like, like, um, sending a text, like basically as easy as sort of sending a text, that you could send it and stackless be, like yep, I got it and to improve the entire background stuff.
00:23:49.571 --> 00:23:50.922
Okay, we'll create the card for you.
00:23:50.922 --> 00:23:52.467
The card, you'll always have an image.
00:23:52.467 --> 00:23:56.606
Um the card, you'll always have a description of favicon and stuff like that.
00:23:56.606 --> 00:23:56.949
Maybe.
00:23:56.949 --> 00:24:11.545
Ai, in the process of the background, when you save like five cards in a row, we will create the stack for you based on the content that you, that you save, and stuff like that you know, just to make it more, more seamless and much more quicker for the end user to to use.
00:24:12.185 --> 00:24:22.213
That's my two cents I think I would just say making cards as easy as possible, saving cards as easy as possible.
00:24:22.213 --> 00:24:40.702
That is like the thing I would say uh, when you see something, or if we can like integrate stuff with the camera, if you see some product or stuff, you just take a picture and it will save to stack list or, uh, anything really that will just save it.
00:24:40.702 --> 00:24:44.792
As, martina, you just trigger a stack list action and that's it.
00:24:44.792 --> 00:24:46.585
You just move your phone away.
00:24:46.585 --> 00:24:49.092
We saved it, it's in your stack, don't worry about it.
00:24:49.092 --> 00:24:50.747
Like it takes only three seconds.
00:24:50.747 --> 00:25:00.509
I would say that will be like the thing, and maybe going to that place is like jumping out of the fridge for people like use stack list, use stack list.
00:25:00.509 --> 00:25:01.903
Hey, you can save this to Stack.
00:25:01.903 --> 00:25:05.606
Just be all over the place for people to know about Stacklist.
00:25:05.626 --> 00:25:12.007
So yeah, I like that one which would be like all right, already I get it.
00:25:13.403 --> 00:25:14.065
I got to be on.
00:25:14.085 --> 00:25:14.486
Stacklist.
00:25:14.486 --> 00:25:15.729
I like that idea.
00:25:15.729 --> 00:25:17.092
You know I've had that.
00:25:17.092 --> 00:25:25.192
This is something that would be fun to explore and I think, especially as Apple intelligence really, you know, gets more and more integrated.
00:25:25.192 --> 00:25:26.323
I was thinking about that with.
00:25:26.744 --> 00:25:42.229
I think I first thought about it, though, when I was in New York and I bought the meta glasses and I was walking down the street and you really realize when you, when you use the meta glasses and you wander around with it, you have have either of you used them.
00:25:42.229 --> 00:25:42.971
Have you played with them?
00:25:42.971 --> 00:25:46.403
No, nope, I gotta, I gotta with it.
00:25:46.403 --> 00:25:47.146
Um, you have either of you used them.
00:25:47.146 --> 00:25:47.669
Have you played with them?
00:25:47.669 --> 00:25:48.412
No, nope, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta get.
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