The Nucleus Network

Kyle:
00:05

Maybe just sing sing a bar of your favorite musical. Ready? Go.

Ari:
00:09

Let it go.

Kyle:
00:14

Amazing. Mark is taking one forever.

Michael:
00:19

That was right off the rip.

Ari:
00:21

Yeah. My big moment. Alright.

Kyle:
00:23

That's gonna make the trailer. There's Jake. Amazing. Cool. Well, thank you all for for jumping in on this, on this Monday morning.

Kyle:
00:36

Cheers. Just got my coffee.

Michael:
00:39

Cheers. Cheers.

Kyle:
00:41

Oh, yeah. And There you go.

Martina:
00:43

It's, 4:30, so not not coffee. More like more like beer time.

Kyle:
00:50

There you go.

Michael:
00:51

I love, like, beer chocolate,

Jake:
00:54

this group here. So next time, we'll do that.

Kyle:
00:56

Totally. Sounds good. What's your alright. I don't even know. What's your love language, Ari?

Kyle:
01:02

I I know I know I know axes. I know Jake's.

Ari:
01:06

I said probably coffee. You know? Good thing

Kyle:
01:09

Oh, okay. Alright. Alright. So you you and Jake are coffee buddies?

Ari:
01:13

Kind words and coffee.

Kyle:
01:14

Pax and I can oh, kind words and coffee. Yes. Ari, you look great today. Cool. Well, I wanted to, thank you all by the way for taking so much time and and and joining us.

Kyle:
01:29

We we've been recording this whole time, and I love I love, just jumping right into it. A little bit of, a little bit of backstory here. So this will end up being episode 2 of building stack list. And the idea that Martina and I wanna do is make sure that we documented this whole process. I of for the other podcast that that I'm running 0 to I've heard so many people say, like, they wish they had sort of documented the process early on of all the little ups and downs and learnings and and wins and things like that.

Kyle:
02:03

And and so I thought, you know, how interesting to basically use the podcast medium to try and kind of document it. I don't know why sometimes it feels like road rules or or, what's the other one? What's the other good one? Road rules and real world. But like sometimes doing confessionals of like, this is super hard or this is this is like, we don't know where we're going and then other times we're like, we know exactly where we're going.

Kyle:
02:33

We know we know exactly how this is gonna turn out. But I thought what would be really interesting is as our closest partner that, I mean, from the first time that I came up and out into the world to start to talk to people about Stacklist I, the universe has, Jake and I collide and ever since I think all of us have kind of talked multiple times a day or or a week. And and so I think what would be really interesting is I'd love to also maybe start by, by going around and and having you know, Axe you and Jake and Ari talk a little bit about your backgrounds, but really maybe kick off if one of you wants to talk about Nucleus and, you know, what the what the mission and and vision is, so that we can set that context of of how Nucleus plays into Stacklist's journey.

Michael:
03:30

Yeah. No doubt. Kyle, appreciate you teeing that up. And I'd be wrong with me to steal Jake's thunder given you 2, met so serendipitously in the wild when you first emerged. So I'll let Jake give the the Nucleus overview.

Jake:
03:43

It sounds like I am taking over the reins here. Thank you, Michael. And, yeah, I think we are definitely all on the same page. I think everyone on this call, Martina, we've we've heard so much about you and we hear amazing things about you and how you've been able to help Slackus too. So this feels like the the OG group of people that have really seen it all come to fruition.

Jake:
04:01

Diving in quickly about, Michael, Ari, and myself, I'll let them introduce themselves after individually, but we are we are really here, I think, for this for this podcast and being next to you, Kyle, and talking about Stackless because it really envisions what we do at Nucleus and who we are. I think at the core what we really like to do and what we aim to is just to connect great people to great people. But after meeting you actually, which we talk about as a business, it's more about connecting great people to great people that have great products and great platform that also like to help people too. And I think that's where you really brought Stackless and us to life and it really, catered that to actually help us introduce you to people within our network. And that's really what Nucleus is.

Jake:
04:42

We are a network development firm that aims to connect you with the right people to kind of further your business or further just your networking to take you to the next level in all facets of life. So we've been in business for about a year now. We actually just reached a year 2 weeks ago. We've made close to 2,000 introductions for all different people in different walks of life. And the whole purpose of what we do is, like we mentioned, is to really help the people closest to us and the people that we believe in get to the next level through introductions.

Jake:
05:14

Through warm introductions, not cold introductions that you see online and you're reaching out cold on Linkedin. We want the people closest to us to meet the other people that are closest to us, and that's really who you are as a company. So pass it over maybe to Mike. Mike, if you wanna give a background on you and then maybe your interpretation of Nucleus,

Michael:
05:29

and then we can congrats to you for calling. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just gonna build off of what you said because I think the Nucleus Stackless partnership has been such a perfect case study for, I think, both sides to show what you just talked about, Jake. Like, the warm introduction is really what fuels, like, growth for every individual, every company.

Michael:
05:48

They're always looking to get in front of the right people, as Jake mentioned, whether that's an investor or a new hire, whether that's an adviser or a new customer. And what I love about our relationship here with Kyle, you, Martina, and and Stackless is the warm introductions span kind of all different areas of business. It's not just, hey. We're looking for potential investors. It's, hey.

Michael:
06:10

We're looking to build out our team. We're looking for customers. We're looking for partners. We're looking for events, influencers. And that's where I think why we've been able to see some of our success collectively as a group is because there's so much opportunity that we get to pick kinda which ones to prioritize on a week by week basis and then dive deep into those specific subsections and say, hey.

Michael:
06:29

You know what? We really wanna do a huge influencer push at the beginning of q 4. So let's really get in front of as many of those types of people as possible. Actually, now we're looking to do more events or we're looking to, you know, finish out our fundraising round. So that's what I've loved most about it is kind of the how dynamic it's been.

Michael:
06:46

And, you know, I think it's a double edged sword because sometimes when you, you know, companies work together and there's a specific goal in mind, that could be helpful because you could be laser focused. But I think kind of taking that trickle down effect is also helpful where there's so many rooms for partnership that, we've been able to work on together. It's been great to see that come to fruition.

Kyle:
07:08

Totally agree. There's so much I wanna unpack there, but I wanna let Ari, I love love your, not only POV of of of Nucleus, but also just sort of a high level of of working with us.

Ari:
07:22

Yeah. So for me, it's honestly been an incredible journey from the start of working with you, Kyle. I think my favorite part has just been the collaboration of everything, whether it's working with Princess on different stacks and working with you, throughout this whole process has been pretty incredible to kinda work through different facets. As Michael was saying, it's been spanning so many different avenues, whether it is influencers or helping with different fundraising things or anything like that, while also getting so into the platform itself and seeing it all kind of trickle down from you, Martina, and from you, Kyle, and seeing this kind of brainchild really take form and grow and come into this incredible product, an incredible thing that I get excited to tell my friends about. I know that Jake and Michael get excited to share with our partners because not only are we introducing a great product, but also great people.

Ari:
08:15

And that's our favorite thing to do.

Michael:
08:18

Yeah. I have 2 things I wanna add real quick, Kyle. The first one is and I think we're all saying the same thing here. It's really not like Nucleus and Stacklist. We are effect effectively, like, extensions of each other's teams.

Michael:
08:28

You know? We're in the weeds every day in the detail, nitty gritty, and that's what's most exciting is that we're building together, not really for one another, for each other at the same time. So that's what's been kind of the most exciting part, like, seeing, you know, how that I think it's different from a lot of other partnerships or relationships that you see in business where it's like a, you know, one one size fits all type of, type of relationship.

Kyle:
08:53

Yeah. No. I I would agree and I would I would just to to yes and that, I would say that, you know, in in former lives, I I built out the strategic alliance and partnership division at Sprinklr, which I think at the time I I I came in was a 120 people and by the time I left that was like 1200 people. And during that period, excuse me, during that period, there that's essentially what we're building is those sort of partnerships with people like, you know, Deloitte and Accenture and others, but it was that it was a it was a true partnership where you were really in it with everyone, all the time. And it feels like whatever the opposite of a traditional sort of vendor kind of relationship is, right?

Kyle:
09:38

Where we've got an agreement in and you are gonna do x y and z and I promise that I will do x y and z. That it's really just, you know, we're we're in it so much together every day and every week. We're in we've got our our shared Slack and we're doing calls and text messages. And and it really does feel like an extension of of our team, which has been crucial because, you know, starting out as a as a startup from idea to proof of concept to a thing that people can log into and use and see if they like it, immediately you sort of really want to. And I think our our goal has been to try and not go to the traditional routes of like paid advertising and just paying a handful of influencers to talk about it and see who comes in.

Kyle:
10:26

But to really cut straight through all the layers and almost get to like boss level immediately which is y'all's network is so is so amazing and also the ability you know I've I've seen it in action you know especially with you Jake and you act of seeing like the the wheels turning and being like I got it you should talk to so and so and there's probably a calendar invite within an hour of someone saying that which is just like which is just amazing. And I and what I love about it is the evolution again to away from that sort of traditional like you know, a vendor says I can help provide you these things and you provide them and then you have a weekly check-in and you sort of, is this going well? Or, you know, and we're reviewing the SOW and like just all the sort of BS things and, and more just like being in it together, which I'm I'm sure also provides you all with the ability to sort of really understand the inner workings of what we do and and how companies like us work and what and and when you see things working that it helps that sort of algorithm of of, networking and connection on y'all's end.

Michael:
11:42

Well, Kyle, you're talking about the inner workings. That's personally my favorite part about this relationship is we live and breathe Stacklist daily with you and with our clients. It's been our medium for sharing lists of people or places or things. And, again, that's obviously, of course, when we're working together. But, you know, after an event, sending a recap and saying, here's the list of people that came or having a friend visit the city and saying, this is the itinerary you need to make sure you hit in this city.

Michael:
12:09

And, again, that could be people, places, and things. And it's just made our lives so much easier by being in the inner workings to your point of the product. And that's why I think this has worked so well. It's like we so strongly believe in not only you, but the product and the company that you're building that it's kind of like the core of who we are and the communication that we have with our clients. It's ingrained in it day day in and day out.

Kyle:
12:31

I'd love to hear, you know, Martina, your perspective on so Martina, you know, came in, I mean, within the 1st month of of the first sort of, early lines of code and sort of took the reins as as the CTO, but, starting with the lead developer and then into CTO and has really owned and run every bit of development and technology and integration and and all of those pieces. But just in the past, you know, 2 weeks has has also taken on the cofounder role. And so, it's sort of coming up and out from just being in the code and and sort of, you know, and seeing and and and steering the ship with me on on all the things. And so I'd love to hear Martine, like, you know, your perspective of, you know, I know I know you've heard of the Nucleus network and then and of of these 3 gentlemen, like, early on, but then just more and more being exposed to it and and your thoughts.

Martina:
13:33

No. I would say that it's it's looks like a perfect combination because what you guys mentioned about cold emails and cold outreach is so much different when you're doing that in person or virtually because you can much more express yourself better if you are explaining or sharing or whatever. Sometimes in those cold emails, when you're reaching out, you cannot actually get to the point of what you are trying to say or maybe show, what you can do in person. And that's, like, a huge difference, I would say. In my previous life, I was working in many start ups, and most of those were, like, cold emails, cold reach outs, you know, just making sure, begging that somebody will respond.

Martina:
14:15

But in this setup that you actually meet the person, and that person knows, like, a bunch of other per people that you can introduce you to, and the connections that are made all around, it's it's so valuable, I would say. Definitely. And it's so good to be outside of the cold at least for a while.

Kyle:
14:36

I would say I would say one of the best examples of that of working with you all is, you know, what Martina was talking about with the cold emails and sort of trying to spend a lot of time and effort crafting those just right, hoping someone's some a hook is gonna catch. You're gonna, like, have the the

Michael:
14:53

the subject line or the first sentence is, oh they're just gonna like they're

Kyle:
14:56

gonna wanna open this and they're gonna wanna see what's inside and you spend so much time doing that. And then on the other end of the spectrum, where I love that we all collectively sit, is going out to lunch, you know, with acts with you and Jake and with a new partner or a new potential investor and just talking about all the things and like, and, and understanding the energy and the intention and the like, and what the investor or the partner wants, you know, and and what they're trying to drive for, how we can so help support that. Like immediately, you're just unpacking so many other layers that it is. It's the cheat code. What was, I don't know.

Kyle:
15:35

I can't remember. 007242. It's 1980. What was the one? There's one in in Mike Tyson's punch out that'll, like, get you to, like, ball, ball, whatever.

Kyle:
15:43

You know what I mean? Like, that you could put in and immediately you're taken to, like, level 30 or whatever. Like that's what this feels like. Is that sort of cheat code that you're not like stressing over subject line titles to see if people open. You're having a lunch and you're just like ideating back and forth and you immediately cut that which for me especially as a startup, you know, and, and, and looking at the finances, the budget, the runway and all these sort of things.

Kyle:
16:09

What I want is I want that cheat code that sort of gets me to a lunch to like immediately figure out like, is this the right connection? Is this someone who And I feel like we've done that together now over the past 3 months so many times where it's, like, immediately just, like, cheat code, and then all of a sudden, we're, like, we're we're in with someone. And I think what's amazing is y'all's ability to also not just it's not just the right investor, which you don't know as a startup when you're reaching out. Like, somebody may invest in SaaS and consumer and AI. That doesn't mean they're gonna have the right disposition or juju or energy or connection, you know, or whatever it is.

Kyle:
16:48

And you don't know that. And then you're all excited that you you happen to, like, get in front of an investor and you're like, I'm here. Well, you know, there's there's a 1% chance that, you know, it's like it's like dating that you're you're gonna find someone who's gonna be the love of your life. But I think what's interesting is it's almost like you you all have the ability that you know all of these things and can cut through all of that. And so, you know, everyone that we've met has been just like the best, most collaborative, the energy's right.

Kyle:
17:17

And it may not be the right investment, it may not be the right partnership at this time, but it is right in terms of the conversation, the timing that we're like, oh my gosh. This is great and I see it. And, you know, and so our network is has just grown and grown and grown. So anyways, I appreciate all of that.

Jake:
17:33

And just to add on here, you mentioned something super important.

Michael:
17:36

The what do

Jake:
17:37

you what is the most, scarce thing that everybody has? It's time. Right? And I think especially as you as a founder, Kyle, and Martini, you as a recent cofounder, which congratulations where where this is amazing news, is, of course, your time and where you spend your time. Like, you can spend so much time building Stacklist, the platform, the back end, doing the accounting, whatever you need to do as a founder.

Jake:
17:58

And what we realized too is this business, because we work with mostly founders of companies, is that you don't necessarily have the right time to, of course, do any cold outreach. That's for sure. But even when it's warm outreach, asking your friends or people in your network who they can connect you to, you don't necessarily have the time or wanna do that. So we kind of see are seen as, like, a layer there where we could just set up the meetings, like you said, put calendar invites in your calendar. We hopefully, and what we aim to do is make sure that the other side is is on the call prepared and ready and open minded to hear what you have to see.

Jake:
18:29

That's super important to us. We like being around open minded and great communicators. And just to to take the time away from you going to all these networking events, traveling,

Kyle:
18:37

and we aim to make

Jake:
18:38

it as easily and effective for

Michael:
18:39

you as possible. So when

Kyle:
18:40

it comes down

Michael:
18:41

to what you

Jake:
18:41

just said about how you've been able to to meet the people within our our network and our our community. I think the fall, of course, is so important, but then also just the the flow of time has been something that we've seen help you, I think, a lot and your team.

Kyle:
18:55

So totally agree. And I think that's you know, even when I think about time and and resources, and it's been such a and I'm I'm glad that we even as an early start up, I'm sure that from the outside, there there would be people that would say, like, you know, I think you should be spending money on product or I think you should be spending money on whatever it is, but I I almost like I'm thankful that and I hope no one ever takes the title away that Stackless is the only diamond client or whatever we we we made we we made up. But just, like, I love being that, like, so integrated with you all that, I almost get, I'm I I am thankful and grateful, but it's also it's so interesting when I step back from time to time and get complacent's not the right word, but but, but I'm thankful that, like, so much that any one of you 3 are probably gonna text me and be like, we found somebody. Great. We're setting it up, and you're gonna talk to him Monday.

Kyle:
20:01

And I go, okay. Amazing. And for me, that would be, like, probably a week or 2 weeks on that single person trying to figure out the angle of what and the positioning and the messaging and how I would do it. And then I imagine for your partners and the people in your network and the investors and everybody else that it's also super valuable for them because especially on the VCs and the investors is that time they get flooded. Right?

Kyle:
20:29

I've got this thing. I've got and I built it and it's gonna be great and it's gonna transform the world and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I just I I can't take another. But what you're doing is you're also vetting, you know, companies like ourselves for the right sort of the right time, the right space where, you know, to make sure that it's gonna end up being the best partnership for that person as well and so you're you're in you're doing this for the other side as well that that when they get sent leads of potential partnerships or investments or something like that, that they know that it's gonna be super high quality and that it's not just sort of like, you guys should talk, which is it's so hugely beneficial on both sides.

Michael:
21:11

Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. It's that mutually beneficial relationship. I think what one of the things I've loved the most about working with you, Kyle, and the whole Stackless team is is how open minded you guys are. And what I mean by that is whether it's an investor introduction or a partner introduction or a potential customer introduction, like you said, it may not always likely won't always come to fruition that we both want it to.

Michael:
21:33

Right? There may there may not be, you know, a a signed, sealed, delivered agreement at the end of it. However, because of your open mindedness and ability to kinda see different angles in that relationship, we collectively and specifically credit to you, have been able to get something out of that, whether it's another introduction or whether it's, you know, a brand advocate for Stacklist. And so maybe they came in as a potential investor, but now they're actually a user. Or maybe they came in as a user, and they love the product so much, and now they're considering investing.

Michael:
21:57

And so all those different angles come into play here, and I gotta give you and team credit for being able to kinda see that value and not force anything that isn't meant to be received well, and then kind of pivot on the fly and be adaptable to be able to attract some value from that introduction no matter what the purpose of the initial intro was made for.

Kyle:
22:17

Yeah. No. Totally. I I think about oh, go ahead.

Jake:
22:22

I was gonna say very well said. I always give Michael his flowers when he says. That was a great thing.

Kyle:
22:30

Well, add chocolate to the to the flowers.

Michael:
22:32

Chocolate. Yeah. It's a popcorn. Yeah.

Kyle:
22:36

Totally. You know, it's funny. I think about that in in sort of a make it make a dating metaphor is when I when I lived out in Santa Monica, I, oh my gosh, this is such a this is such a story. It has to be unpacked at some point, but not here. But I had I had built a website for this, like, $1,000,000 matchmaker person out in LA.

Kyle:
22:56

And then as I was building a website, she was like, I gotta give you introductions. I'm gonna send John all these introductions. And it just wild stories, of just, like, all of a sudden being in eating sushi in Malibu right next to Rick Hilton and I just always say but one of these people that I met was Elle. We were not the right match from a dating perspective, but that was 14 years ago. And we still talk every couple of weeks.

Kyle:
23:24

And it and and we have built websites together. She's had me on podcasts. Like, over these 14 years, there's so many other, like, intersections that our lives have had, along the way. And I sort of feel like it's very similar in that way that, that having these sort of such high quality introductions and also vetted both for our our trajectory and and what we need and all those sort of things is you just never know where that's gonna where that's gonna land. One thing I would love to do is sort of pivoting away from how we work together for a second is is what you all have seen when I when I think back to the sort of building stack list, idea and documenting stack list from the from this process and maybe Jake if you wanna start because you've seen the earliest where I against against against advisor recommendations I sponsored an event that I probably didn't have money to sponsor but I did it anyway and then the sponsor said why don't you get up here and talk about your company for a little bit in front of like 40 or 50 VCs and then right after that me getting up going, I'm not a public speaker but we built a thing.

Kyle:
24:40

You're the first person I talk to so I would love to hear even from your, from your POV just sort of from the outside in, what you've seen in in sort of journey and growth of of Stackless from that moment forward.

Jake:
24:53

I love I love that question. I know we're talking about dating, so I think it was love at first sight, going back to it. But, yeah, you of course, you got on stage. We know Going Public very well, which is the event that you were a part of as well. Amazing people, amazing company, and it's it's also interesting to note that because we have that trust with Going Public, I think it's the automatic trust that we have with you because you were there and you were part of the event which I think is really important in general in life.

Jake:
25:18

When you can when you can find a company or person that you really believe in and they bring in someone to introduce you to, then you automatically feel much more connected to them. So, going back to that day, it's probably, yeah, 4 months ago, we brought a couple members of our team, including Michael and I, and Ari was actually visiting from LA also. So we all were were mingling, doing our thing, and then Kyle got on. And you said that exact line that you just said. I don't I don't speak too often, and I don't really enjoy speaking, but here's what we do and here's Stackless.

Jake:
25:47

And instantly, I think our whole team looked at each other and we were like, we love that guy. Because you were very open and honest and vulnerable, and I think it's very hard to do that, especially if you're sponsoring and partnering an event. You wanna be seen as, like, the confident, credible source, but you are very open of where you're at for your business and what you do. So first off, we love that. We love that you talked about, of course, your wife and the emotional connection there, what Stacklist is and why you built it, of And then I I had to I felt connected and called to come up and talk to you to learn more about the business and actually see the platform.

Jake:
26:18

So I I really think it was love at first sight. You told me more about the business, but more about you as a person, and I instantly went back to the team after. And I was I just met an amazing guy. We have a call set up next week. I can't wait to hear about his business and what he and what he does because I think we as a team should use it anyway.

Jake:
26:34

So to to dive deep into what we what we all knew was we saw a lot of synergy just working with you. And at the end of the day, like you said on this call is we have hundreds of companies and people that that come and want to work with us in some capacity because, of course, everyone wants warm introductions and intros and getting into different networks. But I think our team was a combination of all things. So that's that's our our first love story.

Michael:
26:57

I'm curious what what Michael perspective are you expecting

Jake:
26:58

us to. So you're and before before, Mike, before you jump in, so Jake, you're saying figuratively,

Kyle:
27:10

the way it worked after my speech, you and I talked for a minute and then we said, wanna grab grab some wine? Maybe grab a flight to eat?

Michael:
27:20

And then I had

Jake:
27:20

to get I had to get approval for my, for my.

Martina:
27:24

And so sorry to steal

Kyle:
27:26

I do wanna throw.

Martina:
27:26

But I remember that event. I was I was, it was late for me, and Kyle was doing the presentation the next day. And I we were building, like, I don't know, new profile, bunch of new features. And I think it was 10 PM for me, and I was releasing to production. And my husband asked me, like, what are you doing?

Martina:
27:44

Like, it's 10 PM. I'm like, yeah. But the start up life, he needs that for tomorrow. We need to be ready. Nothing has to nothing it all has to be perfect.

Martina:
27:52

Like, leave me alone. But then it's so it's so funny to see the business side of it, you know, because business and tech should always work together, and that's what people often don't understand. So it's really interesting to see that business part of the story as well as the development part.

Jake:
28:09

And and it's really hear that, Martina. Ari probably goes through this a lot also. Ari is our head of operations at Nucleus. He builds a lot of the back end that we have, but he doesn't necessarily get to see what it's all like being in person and seeing it all to come forward. So we probably love hearing these stories, but what you're what anybody does on the back end behind the scenes is as important and even more important even than than in front of the scenes.

Jake:
28:29

So

Kyle:
28:31

I I remember that by the way, Martina, and I remember, like the day of the event being like oh yeah let me show you this really quick. I'm like pulling out my phone to do demos and obviously we had worked together a little bit but we hadn't gotten to the place we are now where like as I'm doing the demos I'm typing in the URL but inside I'm going just like holding my breath. Everything. But it always it always has. It's always fired great.

Kyle:
28:55

It's always, like, pulled up and it's always been it's always been great. So, I I did wanna also I was, I was pulling this up, for for the for the Nucleus team. By the way, I think Jake you and I started talking about how we might work together and obviously as a as an early startup founder and and all being bootstrapped we're sort of looking at every everything that we're paying for you know with with a high degree of scrutiny and figuring out if this is really what we need to do. I did write Darren back after that event and I said, by the way, I met with Jake and have you ever worked with him? Is it a good team to work with?

Kyle:
29:34

And he wrote back, oh shit I just left it hold on I'm gonna leave you all in suspense. Jake and Nucleus are rock stars, I cannot speak more highly of them. So that's when I probably texted you back Jake and was like great let's do this.

Jake:
29:52

From a dating perspective you asked one of your friends.

Kyle:
29:55

I did. I did. You've you've seen them around at parties. Right? Are they, are they weird?

Kyle:
29:59

Are they like, are they nice? They good conversation? Yeah. And, and so, it did, it did work out that way. So

Michael:
30:06

So Darren will

Jake:
30:07

be at the wedding. Okay, great.

Kyle:
30:12

Totally. I think and so, yeah, I'd love to hear Jake your perspective from once once you started. I know you you and Jake and I had a couple of calls and then we started kind of working on stuff. What would you say is like what's your sort of POV on the the evolution of, of Stacklist from that that first call we had?

Jake:
30:32

Is that for me, Kyle, or for Mike?

Kyle:
30:34

No. For Axe because I you you you and I, I think we I think we covered all our early dating stories but I think Axe, I remember that first call when it was re, it was really the 3 of us and we got on and you know and I started explaining like you can save restaurants and you can save books and like you start peeling back the onion, and then there's this like, oh, I get it. And then from that point to here, you know, I love

Michael:
30:59

your that first call. And then it was a similar internal situation where Jake came to me. It was like, I just met this guy, Kyle. And Kyle, I remember, you know, you speaking at the Going Public event and loving not only your presence of vulnerability, but the product and the idea behind the product and the vision that you had for the future of the product. And so Jake came back to me, and he was like, hey.

Michael:
31:18

So I just spoke to Kyle. Like, really, really believe in this guy, and, like, this product is really cool. I don't know why it doesn't exist yet. I'd love to find a way that we can kind of work with them on all these different things. And so that's when we had that first call.

Michael:
31:30

And I'd say the answer to your question, Kyle, about growth from my perspective of Stacklist from step 0 to wherever we land today is pretty typical for any other startup founder who's navigating and, you know, you take 1 step or 1 step forward or what did I say? 2 step forward, 1 step back, and then 2 steps forward and one step back, and that's a requirement. Right? There there's no shortcutting that. What what you can do is is sometimes expedite that process by way of warm introductions and strategic partners and follow ups, etcetera.

Michael:
31:59

But I've seen it day in and day out where, you know, we have a great intro call with an individual, and then maybe there's one that's not the best fit. And then there's a follow-up from the first individual, which is incredible. And, you know, we're all really thrilled about that conversation progressing because everyone here sees what the potential is for that. And so kind of that evolution of continuing to to build Stacklist, right, while also knowing that there's gonna be some failures along the way. And failures can be small, failures can be big, and those are never gonna stop.

Michael:
32:28

But at Nucleus and I know Stackless echoes the same sentiment, we're we're big believers in failing fast because we know that it's inevitable. So the ability to do that fast and to do that with a chip on your shoulder and to do that with a sense of professionalism and respect and, you know, while being polite, I think that's what's gotten us to where we're at today. And, again, it's gonna continue for the next 3, 6, 9 months, 3, 6, 9 years with this kind of 2 step forward, 1 step back approach, and those steps might just get larger. Maybe it's a hop or maybe it's a skip or a jump. But that's, for me, been what's most apparent on the growth side for Stacklist is seeing it day in and day out.

Michael:
33:06

And I think one thing that we've done, at Nucleus recently is do a better job of taking a step back from being in the business. You know, we're so ingrained in building product and servicing clients, and this is all of our Stacklist and Nucleus, and doing the things that are required to grow a business that it's super important to take forget 2 steps back, a 100 steps back, and look at it from a 30,000 foot view to say, like, okay. This is what we've done in the past 30 days or 60 days 90 days. What's working well? What's not really working well?

Michael:
33:33

What are some areas we can improve on? And doing both those things simultaneously, for me, has been the most, I would say, rewarding thing and apparent thing, for Stacklist, seeing the growth from 0 to where we're at now.

Jake:
33:45

And just to add just to add off that, Mike, that was amazing. I just need to share this. We were together yesterday, Michael and I, in Washington, and we were we were on the train. We were ahead of there, and we pulled up an Instagram video that you posted, actually, Kyle. And it was a video about you on your it was either Saturday or Sunday, talking about how grateful you are to be able to come to where you're at right now, to have an idea for an app or a platform.

Jake:
34:10

And, actually, now it's it's here. Like, the your baby that you've actually tried to make is actually here, and I think it's so important for both of you, Martina and Kyle, to take a step back and be, like, I've had this idea and concept. Now it's actually here. It's come to fruition. So I think we all could be doing a better job at that.

Jake:
34:25

And the best quote that we talk about often at Nucleus is I think a lot of people say, you're on the pursuit of happiness. Right? Everyone always says that. But we think that happiness is in the pursuit. The pursuit is actually the fun part about it.

Jake:
34:39

And then when you actually get to the endpoint, you're always looking for the next pursuit to go on. So I think Stackless is directly on that pursuit right now. And I think it's just enjoying that step by step day of just being on that that role and goal to get there.

Kyle:
34:51

Totally. I think there's 2 things. I love that. There's 2 things I wanna unpack from what Ak said. I think the first is, I was unaware, that there will be failures.

Kyle:
35:05

I didn't I didn't get that memo. So I don't I think it's all just supposed to work great. So, I I will say that, like, you know, back from from what you were saying, I think, you know, and and Jake, you know, about the I I call it the matrix. I've tried I've had I've had this in a number of different ways, both personally and professionally that I've had a number of, like, personal family losses and that that on on the biggest side, that has sort of done that, where it really kicks you out of this, like, your daily to do list and what you think is important and, you know, and and you get sometimes so down deep into the matrix

Michael:
35:55

and,

Kyle:
35:55

in your own sort of head about how things should be. I think it's been really key for me to try and focus on having enough of the right people around that help me get out of my head and get out of the matrix to sort of really see what the true objective view of something is. And I think, you know, I'll I'll do a a group thank you to all of you because it's interesting that even, you know, Martina does this for me, and and hopefully I do it for you too, Martina, but that, like, I'll get on a roll and I'm like, oh, you know what we should do? Or you know what we could also do? Here's this author and then Martina goes, hold on a second.

Kyle:
36:35

Like, wait. Like, let's, you know, let's let's think about this for a second. But but you, you know, you will do that too that, I love that Nucleus is kind of that that while we are so close in a partnership perspective when we're talking every day that also there are times when I could send over an idea or, like, I think we should do this or I think we should do that. That you you will it's not cold water, but it is an objective view to go, like, I don't I don't know if that's the right like, you might wanna think about it this way or you might wanna think about it that way. And it sort of makes me take a step back from the day to day and go like, okay.

Kyle:
37:10

Yeah. Okay. Now I'm now I'm more in that 100,000 foot view and I'm sort of more objective and I get it. And that's nice. And then you sort of dive right back into doing what you're doing.

Kyle:
37:19

And I I appreciate that also from a nuclear's perspective as being able to have partners that help you sort of not just drink more Kool Aid every day, but figure out how to sort of back all the way up and go, like, are we on the right path? Is this all like and I think what's been amazing is over the past 7 months, every time we've done that, there's only been 1 or 2 times where I've I've thought, like, oh, we're we're sort of running too hard at something that we could probably ease up and pivot. But, like, most everything else has always been, like and that backup has been, like, yep. That's all looks good. Alright.

Kyle:
37:52

And that's back back down to it. So I appreciate that that sort of objective view as well. What about where where, like, anything from a partnership perspective or the way that we work together? Anything that that you all think we should do different or or think about or or our trajectory? Or what would your recommendation be if you were, if you weren't as in it as much and and you you sort of took that objective view of Stacklist, sort of.

Kyle:
38:22

And we let's say we we hired, Nucleus for a a a quick 30 minute sort of, like, strategic advisory call and said, where should we go? What should we do?

Michael:
38:33

What would that what would that look like? I love that question, Kyle. It's something we've spoken about with you actually, throughout our process, and it's something we may not have an answer to now. But I feel like we're in a much better place today than we were yesterday and 2 weeks ago, which is, I would say, use cases of Stacklist as a product. Right?

Michael:
38:50

There are so many like, you you always use the word layers, which I love because there are many layers to this. And, you know, Stacklist can be used for sending recommendations for restaurants where I should get dinner with my team tonight and also, you know, the destinations I love or the products I use on a daily basis and and a million other things. And there's 2 thoughts that I have here. The first thought is you always wanna cater to your audience. Right?

Michael:
39:12

So depending on who you're speaking to, you can try and show them how the product would be most useful for them, and that's something we've gotten a lot better at for sure since day 1. And the second part of this is, you know, there's some people that would say it might make more sense to just pick 1, 2, or 3 of those lanes and go deep in those lanes, and then those are the use cases, prove those out, and then expand to new verticals from there. And it's some feedback that we've gotten. You know, we as as a collective group here on the call from investors, from partners, from advisers saying, like, this is incredible. Like, what what is it most useful for?

Michael:
39:43

And then we say, well, it depends who you are, and that's all true. But, you know, I think if, hypothetically speaking, we were to say, hey. You know what? This is actually the most useful and relevant and timely for food recommendations and travel recommendations and shopping recommendations, which is still a whole tall task to tackle. I think that makes us, as a team, a little bit more laser focused on how to position that, message it, and then also get it across the line to the end user or customer or partner or investor for them to see it and feel it and use it themselves.

Michael:
40:17

So that that's the one thing that I think we've all been working on. And, again, I feel like we're in a much better place today than we were in the past.

Kyle:
40:23

I love that. I I also think that in that laser focus, if I if I tie it back to to one of the ways that that Nucleus helps us is is it actually, I had a great call on Friday with a a founder that started a community with 3,000,000, community members that came by way of a Nucleus introduction to me, and the Nucleus introduction introduced this community founder. And so, like, you know, you start to think about how that sort of spreads, from a network perspective, that it's not always just, the benefit is not always the sort of one to one of just the introduction, but the introductions of the introductions, can also have such ripple effects, which is which is great.

Martina:
41:11

Fun fact.

Kyle:
41:12

Amazing. What what They

Martina:
41:13

say that there there's only 3 connection in the entire world that you know some person at the end of the world. So connections are really important and networking.

Kyle:
41:25

Totally. Yeah. Amazing. So, so one of us knows Tim Cook. Is that what is that the

Martina:
41:31

That's yeah.

Kyle:
41:32

Do we need to

Martina:
41:33

I'm almost

Kyle:
41:34

I'm almost let me let let me go through it. Let's one of us should text him and see.

Michael:
41:40

Cool. Well, we're running up on time. I'd love to just like, you know, in the

Kyle:
41:43

last in the last minute or so is maybe go around the horn on any other any other thoughts or or, or sort of, or a or a funny joke or, or any sort of parting parting ideas, before we we sign off?

Jake:
42:00

Art, do you wanna start?

Ari:
42:01

Yeah. Sure. I was gonna kinda jump in and say, I'll say my probably my favorite part being kinda more on the operational side of the Nucleus network is, Martina, all the work that you do. I know that, you know, we haven't spent much time face to face in talking about it, but seeing the product grow and watching Kyle go from, like, just ideas into action has been my real favorite part. And I have been using Stackhouse with my friends, my family, and kind of in business.

Ari:
42:30

We're all using it now. And just watching the product get better and better and better has been so cool to just be a part of that journey. And, also, as watching it happen, watching you guys grow and watching this partnership grow. And like Kyle was saying, how everything kind of snowballs and everything is growing and just continuing to move forward, that's been so enjoyable to be a part of and watch. And truly just what a cool journey to be on and kinda what Jake was saying, finding happiness in that journey and enjoying it while we're on it.

Ari:
43:04

Because at some point, we're gonna turn around and it's gonna be over. And we're gonna have stack list in 10,000,000 phones or a 100,000,000 phones, and who knows what's next.

Kyle:
43:16

That's it. I love it. I love the I love the vision there. And you're right. It's one that that video I posted, that Jake was talking about was just me in the backyard having this moment where I think for so long I have felt I don't know like the the odd duck the odd man out and in sort of traditional corporate structure, because it's just not how my brain thinks.

Kyle:
43:41

And also I have to be, like, learning and growing, like, at a at a at a at a hyper speed. And so what's what's what's and and also the people that you're around, making sure that there's the right sort of energy and and and dynamics and and that's helping you know not only me grow but also I'm hopefully having an impact on the people around me that that I think what I love so much is this place that we're in right now where it feels like that kind of just the way we work together and and, you know, Axe and Jake the way that you all get out and and sort of find these right connections and, Ari, how you and I sort of, you know, dive into into operational things and, like, tackle things or try new things or whatever. And that sort of fluidity of the startup life while also building and watching this thing evolve, I think, has had me reflective in a very appreciative way that I feel like I'm kind of, I don't know where I should be.

Michael:
44:42

We feel the same way about you, Kyle. It's been incredible.

Kyle:
44:47

I love you guys. You're so great. Amazing. Well, thank you all. Any any other any any any parting words or or final thoughts as we as we wrap up here?

Martina:
45:02

How did you get react logo on your shirts?

Michael:
45:10

We built

Martina:
45:11

The react logo. So the,

Kyle:
45:14

the, the nucleus network is, is similar to what we built stack list in. Did you know

Michael:
45:18

that? So

Jake:
45:19

I didn't know that. Yeah.

Michael:
45:20

So

Kyle:
45:20

It's similar to the language that we built that we built, stack list in. Maybe it's serendipity. So it's a There we go.

Martina:
45:28

Light from the beginning.

Kyle:
45:31

It was. Exactly.

Jake:
45:35

I, I just I echo what everyone's saying on this call, like, or this this podcast, not call. I think we're all we're all aligned, and it's it's hopefully just up from here, but there will be ups and downs like we talked about. So I think we all just gotta be level headed and and positive going into this this next stage.

Kyle:
45:53

Yep. Agree. Max, any any parting thoughts?

Michael:
46:02

Excited for listen. It's been a great 3 months, and

Jake:
46:04

I'm excited

Michael:
46:04

to see what the the next 3 months 3 years has for all of us in store. So like Jake said earlier, it's the it's the journey, not the destination. 3 months. Let's let's come back and

Kyle:
46:16

do the same episode 3 months from now. When is that? Because, we're in November, December, Jan so end of January, very beginning of February. Let's do this call again and, and see how it feels and and see where we're at.

Jake:
46:29

Maybe we'll go to the to Brooklyn or we'll go to the city. We'll figure that one out in person. That's a good one too.

Michael:
46:35

I don't

Jake:
46:36

know if Martina knows that one, but that's a good one.

Kyle:
46:38

No. Yeah. So let let's throw this in as a as a as a final sign off. So we went to, Jake and had had, had worked it out that we were gonna get a tour of Wall Street from, from the Einstein and Wall Street. And Peter was basically gonna take us around, and but we had also scheduled a we were gonna do a podcast for 0 to kind of right after that, and there was kinda some buffer, but I was also, like, exorbitantly late, which was terrible.

Kyle:
47:06

And everyone was was, you know, was nice about that but like it did push us a little bit and so the podcast recording started started to get sort of smushy. So we ended the Wall Street, I get an Uber, we get in the Uber, I punch it in, it's like 255 Lexington Avenue or whatever and I punch it and then we're all heads down like we got laptops open and phones open and we're all just like spitting together. Oh you know what we could do is do you know? Yeah yeah yeah I know that person. Why don't we like And we're so sort of laser focused and being in this beautiful mind sort of trying to figure out how to get stack list out to the world place.

Kyle:
47:45

I sort of look up or I think maybe Jake you also maybe mentioned like this looks very neighborhood hoody or something like that. We ended up on Lexington Avenue deep into Brooklyn. So we were not anywhere near Manhattan. And I had to text I had to text, Matt, who's amazing by the way at the, at the Manhattan Lab Podcast Studio and just be like, let's just let's just call it a wash. And, Matt's great.

Kyle:
48:12

He's like, you can always come back and do this next time you're in New York. But all of a sudden, we're like deep in the in the Brooklyn and nowhere near Manhattan. So I guess there's 2 Lexingtons. So that's a a word of caution for anyone who, types into Uber, a Lexington address and then just sort of like, you know, get gets wrapped up in their phone. You may end up on the other side of New York that you didn't wanna be in.

Kyle:
48:37

So what do we do? We just pivoted and we just went and and ate sushi. Right? That's right. She was still there

Michael:
48:43

waiting for us. It was still there.

Kyle:
48:45

Totally. Exactly. Amazing. Cool. Well, thanks thanks to you all.

Kyle:
48:50

You're all rock stars. I'm glad to be partnered with you all and and building this thing together. So I'll see you see you back here in 3 months, and we'll tell more stories.

Jake:
49:01

Thank you for having us.

Michael:
49:02

Thanks, Kyle. Thanks, Francina.

Ari:
49:03

Thank you, Kyle. Thank you, guys.

Kyle:
49:04

Thanks, all.

Martina:
49:05

See you. Bye.